Commentaires sur : My apologies but … http://blog.renaudguerin.net/2007/08/31/my-apologies-but/ High tech, Musique, Art, Culture, Internet, Mac, Linux, Geekeries, Home Studio... Mon, 01 Dec 2008 23:38:13 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.6.3 Par : VP http://blog.renaudguerin.net/2007/08/31/my-apologies-but/#comment-4622 VP Wed, 26 Nov 2008 20:49:05 +0000 http://blog.renaudguerin.net/2007/08/31/my-apologies-but/#comment-4622 Geography knowledge in itself is not a goal (true, there are many luminaries and renaissance men that might disagree and which I respect). Therefore, I would quantify the level of civilization in other terms. US is a country that allows you to fail and does not errect barriers for dumb people. Everybody has a decent shot at fame and money, and education too (fellowships are given always by merit, not socio-economic status like in Europe). I would be very sorry to hear that in France dumb people can't have their own TV stations or are ostracized in any way since that would be a direct contradiction to the much vaunted LFE slogan. But then again, I don't think much of european superiority - I've recently watched the show "Do you want to be a millionaire", the french version of it, and discovered that half of french people do not know whether the Earth rotates around the sun or the moon... I am an european and I've lived in US for some time now. I have not met with significant differences in general level of education. I understand that living in Paris or Lyon that might be hard to believe, but Europe has plenty of low educated people who can't point to Hungary or Lichtenstein on the map. And to end again with a political message: I can't see how one individual can create so much hype so as to create the illusion of a new era (unless the whole world is very uneducated about this guy's background and voting record). After all, it took a Mesiah 2000 years ago to bring in a new era. Is there a similarity I don't see? Geography knowledge in itself is not a goal (true, there are many luminaries and renaissance men that might disagree and which I respect). Therefore, I would quantify the level of civilization in other terms. US is a country that allows you to fail and does not errect barriers for dumb people. Everybody has a decent shot at fame and money, and education too (fellowships are given always by merit, not socio-economic status like in Europe). I would be very sorry to hear that in France dumb people can’t have their own TV stations or are ostracized in any way since that would be a direct contradiction to the much vaunted LFE slogan.
But then again, I don’t think much of european superiority - I’ve recently watched the show “Do you want to be a millionaire”, the french version of it, and discovered that half of french people do not know whether the Earth rotates around the sun or the moon… I am an european and I’ve lived in US for some time now. I have not met with significant differences in general level of education. I understand that living in Paris or Lyon that might be hard to believe, but Europe has plenty of low educated people who can’t point to Hungary or Lichtenstein on the map.
And to end again with a political message: I can’t see how one individual can create so much hype so as to create the illusion of a new era (unless the whole world is very uneducated about this guy’s background and voting record). After all, it took a Mesiah 2000 years ago to bring in a new era. Is there a similarity I don’t see?

]]> Par : renaud http://blog.renaudguerin.net/2007/08/31/my-apologies-but/#comment-4325 renaud Mon, 10 Nov 2008 09:18:04 +0000 http://blog.renaudguerin.net/2007/08/31/my-apologies-but/#comment-4325 I agree (and stated in the article) that these answers may be carefully selected. That said, I stand by my educated guess that it would take a lot of chance, and a LOT of interviews, to get anything like those kind of answers, over here in Europe. "WHAT is the United Kingdom ?". Seriously ! You would have to go to some really remote, rural communities to see that level of widespread ignorance about the world, their own country, or well, the human body (the "1 kidney" thing). I'm not trying to make a point or be insulting to America, a big part of which I love, but no, you can't say it's about the same level of ignorance everywhere. For one thing, that problem with geography is not a myth, it's even been measured : http://edition.cnn.com/2006/EDUCATION/05/02/geog.test/ For another very important thing : the idea that a museum of creationism can actually be built, financed and run in this day and age, that it can spew its nonsense to hundreds of visitors daily with nobody ever getting in their way at some stage in the process, THAT I assure would be impossible over here. Hearing one visitor explain seriously to his kids that there used to be dragons in the middle ages (I actually saw this on a TV report about the museum) : that would send even the uneducated around here into a burst of laughter, right before they feel a chill down their spine. Again, my point is obviously not "you guys are dumb we are smarter hahaha". It's "We mostly ignore our dumb people, they do vote individually but they don't have their own media, they are not vocal, have no leverage in news outlets and don't get organised as much. Whereas your dumb people are seemingly very often rich, organised, influent, vocal, they have their own TV channels and can actually rise to the highest top. 2 words : George Bush. " I understand that's freedom of speech and democracy, but these 2 essential liberties become dangerous double-edged swords if you fail to maintain an acceptable level of average education so that people just can't buy crazy theories. Anyway hopefully, a new era has started in America now, and the whole world is very proud of you for that :) I agree (and stated in the article) that these answers may be carefully selected.

That said, I stand by my educated guess that it would take a lot of chance, and a LOT of interviews, to get anything like those kind of answers, over here in Europe. “WHAT is the United Kingdom ?”. Seriously !
You would have to go to some really remote, rural communities to see that level of widespread ignorance about the world, their own country, or well, the human body (the “1 kidney” thing).

I’m not trying to make a point or be insulting to America, a big part of which I love, but no, you can’t say it’s about the same level of ignorance everywhere.

For one thing, that problem with geography is not a myth, it’s even been measured : http://edition.cnn.com/2006/EDUCATION/05/02/geog.test/

For another very important thing : the idea that a museum of creationism can actually be built, financed and run in this day and age, that it can spew its nonsense to hundreds of visitors daily with nobody ever getting in their way at some stage in the process, THAT I assure would be impossible over here.
Hearing one visitor explain seriously to his kids that there used to be dragons in the middle ages (I actually saw this on a TV report about the museum) : that would send even the uneducated around here into a burst of laughter, right before they feel a chill down their spine.

Again, my point is obviously not “you guys are dumb we are smarter hahaha”.
It’s “We mostly ignore our dumb people, they do vote individually but they don’t have their own media, they are not vocal, have no leverage in news outlets and don’t get organised as much. Whereas your dumb people are seemingly very often rich, organised, influent, vocal, they have their own TV channels and can actually rise to the highest top. 2 words : George Bush. ”

I understand that’s freedom of speech and democracy, but these 2 essential liberties become dangerous double-edged swords if you fail to maintain an acceptable level of average education so that people just can’t buy crazy theories.

Anyway hopefully, a new era has started in America now, and the whole world is very proud of you for that :)

]]> Par : VP http://blog.renaudguerin.net/2007/08/31/my-apologies-but/#comment-4319 VP Mon, 10 Nov 2008 01:16:02 +0000 http://blog.renaudguerin.net/2007/08/31/my-apologies-but/#comment-4319 The level of ignorance is most probably equal in equally civilized countries. There's no need to feel overly confident in the degree of knowledgeability in France or anywhere in Europe for that matter. I think french individuals are just as ignorant, just less modest about it. The fact that the interviewed persons are well dressed and look, well, "normal" as you succintly put it, shows one thing only: that uneducated, low class persons have a decent life in US. And I'm very sure that of all people stopped and asked these questions, these carefully selected answers are just that: carefully selected - to make a point. Now, the fact that democracy allows people like these to vote is something else... The level of ignorance is most probably equal in equally civilized countries. There’s no need to feel overly confident in the degree of knowledgeability in France or anywhere in Europe for that matter.
I think french individuals are just as ignorant, just less modest about it. The fact that the interviewed persons are well dressed and look, well, “normal” as you succintly put it, shows one thing only: that uneducated, low class persons have a decent life in US. And I’m very sure that of all people stopped and asked these questions, these carefully selected answers are just that: carefully selected - to make a point.
Now, the fact that democracy allows people like these to vote is something else…

]]> Par : Con comme la … | Renaud's piece of net http://blog.renaudguerin.net/2007/08/31/my-apologies-but/#comment-4012 Con comme la … | Renaud's piece of net Sun, 26 Oct 2008 01:27:39 +0000 http://blog.renaudguerin.net/2007/08/31/my-apologies-but/#comment-4012 [...] je ne dirai plus rien sur l’américain moyen [...] [...] je ne dirai plus rien sur l’américain moyen [...]

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